Thanks for the quote that we hadn’t seen prior to
I’m not sure if you had use of Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or otherwise not, because try authored due to the fact a resource to possess Americans having colonial ancestors out of Plantagenet descent. He brings as one of their proofs that Joanna was the fresh new mommy of Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn offered the latest functions regarding Knighton and you may Norton castles for the Shropshire to Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and Gwladus was indeed married. It can had been illegal for Llewelyn provide Joanna’s possessions to an illegitimate daughter (or individual that wasn’t a child out-of Joanna). The brand new features off Norton and you will Knighton stayed regarding the Mortimer family afterwards. The new quotation try, “That in case the Queen provide Belongings to help you a guy that have an effective woman off their kindred in frank relationship, plus the lady dyeth versus thing, the guy in the Leaders situation will not hold it to possess their existence, as the lady was the cause of brand new provide.” Put differently, the qualities might have reverted back once again to new crown in advance of it could have been given to an infant who was not Joanna’s.
Hello, Marilyn, I did not get access to the brand new Plantaganet Origins from the Doug Richardson, however, performed have access to the many conversations associated with him and you will their concepts along with other genealogists (specific having your, however, many also facing). I believe, once i stated in my previous report, you to definitely just what shifts it for me(Joanna being the mother of Gwladus), is the import of the characteristics you mention in order to Ralph de Mortimer through to their ed two of its pupils ‘John’ and you can ‘Joan.’ I can not that is amazing in the event the Gwladus ended up being the brand new ded their own college students hence. Despite the objections between the eminent genealogists I explore more than, there was a standard opinion you to definitely Gwladus Ddu might be relatively defined as the fresh daughter from Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth because of the Joanna, child (after that legitimised) from John, King away from The united kingdomt. Allow me to bring that it possible opportunity to go along with Sharon (from inside the a message in my opinion) you to definitely Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian is from the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and thus are bloodstream aunt so you’re able to Gruffudd. We foot this partially to your today’s number included in ‘Regal and other Historic characters Illustrative of rule Bor hot girl off Henry 111,’ edited of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. On pages five-hundred-503 ‘s the transcript off a distinctive letter dated Marshall, Earl away from Pembroke, so you’re able to King Henry 111. Within letter, Marshall talks about their siege of one’s castles regarding Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy listings the individuals the guy found in the palace O’Realy when they surrendered, they provided: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre ainsi que matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I am told this particular means i have here Gwenllian, daughter away from Prince llywelyn, who appears to be called ‘sister off Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd as the latest illegitimate son out-of Llywelyn, it’s removed one ‘de- patre mais aussi matre’ means Gwenllian and Gruffudd was in fact complete blood sibling and you may sister. Had Gwenllian become Joanna’s daughter and that Queen Henry’s niece, seriously Marshall could have mentioned on that reality? Which incapacity off de- Lacy’s spouse as the king’s relative, is removed as near particular proof one to Gwenllian was not this new child of your king’s sis Joanna.
This type of attributes was indeed element of Joanna’s maritagium of their father Queen John
Ken: Many thanks for one reference to Gwenllian. I am not an expert genealogist, but I do a good amount of look by myself contours. I do believe some of the “pros” are really jealous and you may furious each and every most other (at the very least obviously method in a few of the things it blog post). You can find issues that we’re just not planning to discover with certainty regarding the people in brand new MA as they did not remain public record information including i do today, so genealogists and you may historians have to use their very best wisdom in sorting some thing away. Actually, public information is actually a fairly “new” build – of a lot says in the us did not keep info off births and you will fatalities until the early 1900’s. I belong to numerous ancestry communities where I have had in order to confirm 11 otherwise 12 years, and believe me it is hard. Therefore i most enjoy the issue out-of comparing MA forefathers. (Plus the sad issue is the fact that the information available towards the MA are of your own royalty and you can nobility – little whatsoever on the well-known anyone).